Livid League
Back and Forth: Barbara Bartoletti
Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:18:00
Barbara Bartoletti, legislative director for the League of Women Voters of New York State, has been preaching good government in the halls of the Capitol since 1978. But she has never seen anything quite like the recent Senate coup. In the midst of it all, Bartoletti has been trying to revive a reform agenda that seemed to be progressing under the new Democratic majority, but which now appears to be in serious trouble.
Bartoletti spoke with The Capitol about her memories of a previous coup attempt in the Assembly, what she thinks about the new rules reforms implemented by the Republicans, and where good government groups go from here.
What follows is an edited tran scri pt.
The Capitol: You’ve been around Albany for three decades. Have you ever seen anything that compares?
Barbara Bartoletti: Ugh, no. With Mr. Spitzer, it actually played out in New York City because, of course, that’s where he was. We had a lot of press here that were kind of stalking Mr. Paterson, because it was fairly clear that Mr. Paterson was going to be the new governor. But as far as what goes on in this Capitol, I have never seen anything like this. We also went through a coup in the Assembly, but that never really, obviously, got off the ground. They did it badly. It was announced on a Wednesday, and they didn’t go back to session until Monday. And by the time they went back into session, Mr. Silver had squashed Mr. Bragman like a bug. Mr. Bragman, of course still a member, got up in a jam-packed gallery. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a gallery that full, I mean, there were reporters sitting in the window seats—while Mr. Bragman aired all of the Democrats’ dirty laundry. But this, the actual tussle and tug of war for power, I’ve never seen anything this blatant. It was definitely a power move. And if you were looking at this just as an observer who didn’t know anything about issues but knew political strategy, the Republicans pulled it off perfectly.
TC: So things have reached a new level?
BB: There is a new dynamic. Things in Albany have always been dysfunctional because we have a leadership-driven Legislature, which one might think would make this work like clockwork. And it does—when you have the kind of majority Mr. Silver has. He has 109 members. The Senate has always been controlled by the Republicans with enough seats—a majority of enough seats—so that they did have the power securely. But with this change of power, with only a two-seat margin, it was tenuous at best, and then you have different ideologies of some of the members. You have Mr. Stachowski from Buffalo, who is a very conservative Democrat. You have
Mr. Diaz, who is a Pentecostal minister and very socially conservative. You have your more liberal side of the Senate, which would be Mr. Duane and some of the Manhattan members who call themselves progressive Democrats. So there’s an intermingling of a lot of different characters and ideologies in this very tenuous Senate majority.
TC: By negotiating the budget behind closed doors, and not going as far as they promised on rules reform, did Democrats in a way bring this on themselves?
BB: Well, number one, the budget wasn’t done in public because the governor didn’t want it done in public. I mean, that was the governor’s call. Now, could the Legislature have called conference committees? Yes. And both Mr. Silver and Mr. Smith can be blamed for that. When you talk about the Senate rules, they did come out with rules reforms. They didn’t go as far as we wanted them to go. That’s absolutely true. We want equal resources for every senator, since they represent the same number of constituents and equal distribution of member items.
TC: After the coup, Republicans implemented new rules. Do you think these will bring about real change, as they say?
BB: One word: no. And I’ll tell you why. Number one, [New York Public Interest Research Group] sat down with these new rules and went item by item, and compared them to what we were looking for—and there are some glaring loopholes in them. They promised a plan for a C-SPAN. Well, there have been plans for C-SPAN for 25 years, and that you can’t do alone. That takes both the Senate and the Assembly. They also managed to close up a loophole, to disallow the Democrats from doing to them what they just did to the Democrats. As far as the equal-member items, that certainly remains to be seen. This session, the budget is already done. So that’s to be done in the future. And what this is all about, this is all about the election of 2010. If the Republicans can hold the chamber and accomplish anything at all, they feel they would have a better chance at being elected to the majority again in 2010. The Democrats, of course, feel that if they were able to regain the majority, they would have a good chance of retaining their majority in 2010. Now why are we all focused on 2010? Because the census is done in 2010, and then redistricting happens—and that’s what this is all about.
TC: What do you make of those who orchestrated the coup doing so under the mantle of reform, which is a word typically used by people like yourself?
BB: Our concern is that the word “reform” here in Albany no longer has any meaning. When we talk about reform, we talk about campaign finance reform with very strong enforcement. If you had that now, Mr. Espada would have caved and would have been severely fined—well, actually, what he did would have been a felony.
Mr. Golisano says he will support these senators that cross over and do what he calls “real reform.” However, it really rings hollow when you know Mr. Espada has not filed his campaign filings extensively over several years and has thumbed his nose at the State Board of Elections.
TC: With a Senate that is probably going to be operating under a power-sharing agreement, where does that leave your agenda?
BB: We had eight bills that were going to be passed in committee last Monday on ethics and campaign finance reform. Now they’re dead in the water. Absolutely nowhere, as it does that for most of the legislation that impacts the people of the state of New York. So right now, the Assembly has no partner in the Senate, and none of the people’s business is getting done. It’s simply a power struggle. Whether it’s the Democrats, whether it’s the Republicans, whether it’s the new coalition government, it’s all about power for them, it is not about the people’s work. And that’s the saddest, most embarrassing, worst part of this whole thing.
TC: As you’ve been up there during this struggle, what has been your role?
BB: We sent out a letter to this coalition government, and we want them to let the people of the State of New York know, and let us know, exactly what the positions of this coalition government are on things like campaign finance reform and ethics—and we want them to do it before the end of session. If this is all about reform, then the first thing that this Senate coalition should be doing is passing those reforms. They have the language. All they need to do is put their names on Sen. Squadron’s bill, put their names on Speaker Silver’s bill.
TC: As somebody who’s been fighting for reform for so long, are you frustrated?
BB: Oh, I think that would be a mild use of the word. I’m frustrated, I’m angry for the people of New York. I’m embarrassed for the people of New York. Yes, I have this time volunteering, trying to make government in New York ethical, trying to make government in New York efficient, and trying to make government in New York work for the people, not specifically for the party or the individual legislator. And yes, I think I’m all of those things: frustrated, angry and embarrassed.
TC: But you’re going to keep at it, nonetheless?
BB: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. This is just one more little hump in the road. But absolutely we will keep doing this.
--
ABOVE: Photo by Barry Sloan
Bartoletti spoke with The Capitol about her memories of a previous coup attempt in the Assembly, what she thinks about the new rules reforms implemented by the Republicans, and where good government groups go from here.
What follows is an edited tran scri pt.
The Capitol: You’ve been around Albany for three decades. Have you ever seen anything that compares?
Barbara Bartoletti: Ugh, no. With Mr. Spitzer, it actually played out in New York City because, of course, that’s where he was. We had a lot of press here that were kind of stalking Mr. Paterson, because it was fairly clear that Mr. Paterson was going to be the new governor. But as far as what goes on in this Capitol, I have never seen anything like this. We also went through a coup in the Assembly, but that never really, obviously, got off the ground. They did it badly. It was announced on a Wednesday, and they didn’t go back to session until Monday. And by the time they went back into session, Mr. Silver had squashed Mr. Bragman like a bug. Mr. Bragman, of course still a member, got up in a jam-packed gallery. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a gallery that full, I mean, there were reporters sitting in the window seats—while Mr. Bragman aired all of the Democrats’ dirty laundry. But this, the actual tussle and tug of war for power, I’ve never seen anything this blatant. It was definitely a power move. And if you were looking at this just as an observer who didn’t know anything about issues but knew political strategy, the Republicans pulled it off perfectly.
TC: So things have reached a new level?
BB: There is a new dynamic. Things in Albany have always been dysfunctional because we have a leadership-driven Legislature, which one might think would make this work like clockwork. And it does—when you have the kind of majority Mr. Silver has. He has 109 members. The Senate has always been controlled by the Republicans with enough seats—a majority of enough seats—so that they did have the power securely. But with this change of power, with only a two-seat margin, it was tenuous at best, and then you have different ideologies of some of the members. You have Mr. Stachowski from Buffalo, who is a very conservative Democrat. You have
Mr. Diaz, who is a Pentecostal minister and very socially conservative. You have your more liberal side of the Senate, which would be Mr. Duane and some of the Manhattan members who call themselves progressive Democrats. So there’s an intermingling of a lot of different characters and ideologies in this very tenuous Senate majority.
TC: By negotiating the budget behind closed doors, and not going as far as they promised on rules reform, did Democrats in a way bring this on themselves?
BB: Well, number one, the budget wasn’t done in public because the governor didn’t want it done in public. I mean, that was the governor’s call. Now, could the Legislature have called conference committees? Yes. And both Mr. Silver and Mr. Smith can be blamed for that. When you talk about the Senate rules, they did come out with rules reforms. They didn’t go as far as we wanted them to go. That’s absolutely true. We want equal resources for every senator, since they represent the same number of constituents and equal distribution of member items.
TC: After the coup, Republicans implemented new rules. Do you think these will bring about real change, as they say?
BB: One word: no. And I’ll tell you why. Number one, [New York Public Interest Research Group] sat down with these new rules and went item by item, and compared them to what we were looking for—and there are some glaring loopholes in them. They promised a plan for a C-SPAN. Well, there have been plans for C-SPAN for 25 years, and that you can’t do alone. That takes both the Senate and the Assembly. They also managed to close up a loophole, to disallow the Democrats from doing to them what they just did to the Democrats. As far as the equal-member items, that certainly remains to be seen. This session, the budget is already done. So that’s to be done in the future. And what this is all about, this is all about the election of 2010. If the Republicans can hold the chamber and accomplish anything at all, they feel they would have a better chance at being elected to the majority again in 2010. The Democrats, of course, feel that if they were able to regain the majority, they would have a good chance of retaining their majority in 2010. Now why are we all focused on 2010? Because the census is done in 2010, and then redistricting happens—and that’s what this is all about.
TC: What do you make of those who orchestrated the coup doing so under the mantle of reform, which is a word typically used by people like yourself?
BB: Our concern is that the word “reform” here in Albany no longer has any meaning. When we talk about reform, we talk about campaign finance reform with very strong enforcement. If you had that now, Mr. Espada would have caved and would have been severely fined—well, actually, what he did would have been a felony.
Mr. Golisano says he will support these senators that cross over and do what he calls “real reform.” However, it really rings hollow when you know Mr. Espada has not filed his campaign filings extensively over several years and has thumbed his nose at the State Board of Elections.
TC: With a Senate that is probably going to be operating under a power-sharing agreement, where does that leave your agenda?
BB: We had eight bills that were going to be passed in committee last Monday on ethics and campaign finance reform. Now they’re dead in the water. Absolutely nowhere, as it does that for most of the legislation that impacts the people of the state of New York. So right now, the Assembly has no partner in the Senate, and none of the people’s business is getting done. It’s simply a power struggle. Whether it’s the Democrats, whether it’s the Republicans, whether it’s the new coalition government, it’s all about power for them, it is not about the people’s work. And that’s the saddest, most embarrassing, worst part of this whole thing.
TC: As you’ve been up there during this struggle, what has been your role?
BB: We sent out a letter to this coalition government, and we want them to let the people of the State of New York know, and let us know, exactly what the positions of this coalition government are on things like campaign finance reform and ethics—and we want them to do it before the end of session. If this is all about reform, then the first thing that this Senate coalition should be doing is passing those reforms. They have the language. All they need to do is put their names on Sen. Squadron’s bill, put their names on Speaker Silver’s bill.
TC: As somebody who’s been fighting for reform for so long, are you frustrated?
BB: Oh, I think that would be a mild use of the word. I’m frustrated, I’m angry for the people of New York. I’m embarrassed for the people of New York. Yes, I have this time volunteering, trying to make government in New York ethical, trying to make government in New York efficient, and trying to make government in New York work for the people, not specifically for the party or the individual legislator. And yes, I think I’m all of those things: frustrated, angry and embarrassed.
TC: But you’re going to keep at it, nonetheless?
BB: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. This is just one more little hump in the road. But absolutely we will keep doing this.
--
ABOVE: Photo by Barry Sloan
